Нерассказанная история японских разработчиков игр (интервью)

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Это отрывок из книги Джона Жепаняка «Нерассказанная история японских разработчиков игр, Том 1», в которой представлены подробное интервью с представителями японской игровой индустрии.

Полное интервью из 11800 слов можно найти в книге (Paperback & Kindle). Эта книга также была доступна в рамках пакета электронных книг от StoryBundle «Летние видеоигры», издававшихся без DRM с 24 июня по 17 июля 2015 года.

Выдержка из интервью

Интервью с ZUN'ом — выдержка из «Нерассказанной истории японских разработчиков игр»
Автор — Джон Жепаняк

«Интервью с ZUN'ом, настоящее имя — Дзюнъя Ота»
25 Октября 2013 года, Токио

Когда меня впервые попросили взять интервью у ZUN'а, этот вызов заинтриговал меня. Додзин-сцена была чем-то, что я определённо хотел осветить, учитывая, что она ещё хуже описана на английском языке, чем основные японские игры, и, конечно же, ZUN — самая культовая из фигур этой сцены. Однако его также очень трудно поймать. По счастливой случайности я встретил его на мероприятии Sony «Indie Stream», когда болтал с Ёсиро Кимурой. Мы обсуждали наше запланированное интервью, когда подошел ZUN вместе с группой поклонников и доброжелателей — он и мистер Кимура давние друзья. После этого господин Кимура выступил в роли моего связного, организовав нашу беседу. Я должен был встретиться с ZUN'ом в банке крови Синдзюку, где мы затем отправимся в кафе, чтобы освежиться и поговорить.

—Джон Жепаняк, автор «Нерассказанной истории японских разработчиков игр»


<мы заказываем напитки, кофе для меня и пиво для ZUN'а>

Джон: Может быть, мне стоит сначала задать последний вопрос. Вы когда-нибудь пробовали настоящий британский эль?
ZUN: <улыбается> Да, да, я пробовал!

Джон: Что вы о нём думаете?
ZUN: Мне нравится настоящее пиво типа эля. Думаю, оно лучше всего подходит, когда зимой холодно. Так что я думаю, что это может быть зимний эль. Но летом, когда жарко, нужно пить японское пиво.

Джон: В какую игру вы играли самой первой?
ZUN: Ну, у нас раньше были такие игровые кафе в Японии, и там были «[w:ru:Space Invaders|Космические захватчики]» или классические игры вроде них. Я не могу точно вспомнить, в какую из них я играл первой. Но это была одна из тех, в которых используется стол с игрой посередине.

Джон: Когда вы захотели создать свою собственную?
ZUN: Дело было не в том, чтобы смотреть на игру и думать: «Я хочу сделать что-то подобное». Я действительно играл в игры всё свое детство, это было моим главным интересом. Когда я поступил в университет в Токио, тогда я жил один, и тогда у меня были возможность и время начать делать игры. С точки зрения того, когда я захотел начать делать игры, я думаю, что это желание всегда было во мне.

Джон: Что вы изучали в университете?
ZUN: Моя специальность — математика.

JS: Did you teach yourself programming?
ZUN: Indeed. Making games was much more of an interest to me than programming, so yes, you have to learn programming to make games, so I taught myself that. In terms of how I did it, this wasn’t really the age of the internet in those days, so much. There was some stuff out there, but it was much more about trial and error, and reading, and so on.

Джон: С какого языка программирования вы начали?
ZUN: Первое, что я узнал это Си.

Джон: До «Highly Responsive to Prayers», вы делали какие-нибудь другие игры?
ZUN: Я сделал несколько игр до первого «Тохо», но так и не выпустил их. Некоторые из них я показывал друзьям, но они не были официальным релизом. Первая игра, которую я сделал, была копией «Puyo Puyo». <смех>

Джон: Потрясающе. У тебя ещё есть эта игра?
ZUN: <смех> Я не знаю, есть ли у меня ещё данные! Компьютер, на котором я его сделал, пропал, так что я не знаю.

Джон: Уверен, многим было бы интересно посмотреть на эти пред-«Тохо».
ZUN: Уверен, что так. Я не знаю, где остальные игры. Я уверен, что если бы я охотился за ними, я мог бы найти их, но…

JS: Well, keep an eye out.
ZUN: It’s very nostalgic, thinking about them.

Джон: Вы начинали с PC-98, но в 1996 году он уже был на пути к устареванию, заменившись в Японии компьютерами с Windows. Зачем начинать с РС-98?
ZUN: Честно говоря, я не особо обращал внимание на компьютеры с Windows, когда делал первые игры «Тохо». В Windows тогда не было таких вещей, как DirectX. Я просто не рассматривал её как платформу для разработки игр. Игры, которые я знал, были сделаны на разных системах. Некоторые люди владели компьютером, например, PC-98 или X68000, исключительно для игр. Их создание на PC-98 казалось мне очень логичным и очень естественным.

JS: What was the first computer you owned? Was it a PC-88?
ZUN: No, it was the PC-98. That’s the very first computer I bought, and it’s the one I developed the Touhou games on.

JS: Do you still have this Touhou computer?
ZUN: I still have it, yes.

JS: Does it still work?
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t know, and I’m not sure if I can remember how to use it. It was a long time ago.

JS: Old hardware slowly breaks down over time.
ZUN: Absolutely, and also floppy disks get mould on them, or fall apart.

JS: Someone showed me the original dev disks for Thunder Force, which went white with mould.[sic]
ZUN: It happens, that’s the way it is.

JS: Your first Touhou game, Highly Responsive to Prayers, had a Breakout feel to it, and then the formula changed for the second game. What motivated this?
ZUN: Obviously, danmaku as it exists now wasn’t really around back then, in 1996, and even before I made the first game, I did have an image in my head, of that being kind of what I wanted to make. It may not have been what the second game became, but that was the idea, and although I didn’t have the word danmaku to describe it, that sort of wall of bullets was definitely there. But I needed to practise as it were, I needed to learn how to produce that. So the first game was, really, a training exercise for me in a way. So I learned a lot about game production, engine development, through the creation of Highly Responsive to Prayers. Then from the second game onwards, that was when I made the game that was in my mind.

Джон: Вы используете части кода и движка между разными играми серии «Тохо»
ZUN: Для кода произошёл разрыв, когда я переключился с PC-98 на разработку под Windows. То есть между «Mystic Square» в 1998 году и «Embodiment of Scarlet Devil» в 2002 году. Эти две игры не имеют похожего кода, и он снова был полностью с нуля. Но с тех пор механика, ядро движка, осталось прежним. Поэтому я его меняю и улучшаю, но есть код, который я написал в 2002 году и который до сих пор есть и в последних частях «Тохо».

JS: One of my favourites is Shoot the Bullet (below), with the photography mechanic. Ingenious! What inspired you?
ZUN: This goes back to the reason why I started making danmaku games. The shooting game genre was stagnating. The typical arcade shooting games had fallen into a pattern. I think Touhou as a series, and as an idea, is quite original. But obviously as the popularity grew, and the genre grew, a lot of Touhou style games were being made by a lot of different developers. As a result, standards for judging what makes a good danmaku game had evolved, which was more or less a good thing overall. And when you think about the standards for games like this, something that has to stand out for the games to be successful, is the way it looks. So I thought that the best way to show everybody what a game looks like is obviously to take photos, so to speak, and I thought if danmaku fans have an interest in images and the way things look, I should make a game where they can control that. So I created the “screenshot feature” if you will, because I thought that would be a very interesting way to interact with the fans in a way that I knew they were already interested in.
JS: As a journalist I take snapshots of games using a capture card, so this really resonated with me. Waiting for that perfect moment.
ZUN: It’s all about timing, which is fun.

JS: <passes over Retro Gamer> It only covers old games. I interviewed the director of Akumajou Dracula.
ZUN: Ahh, Castlevania! Which system?
JS: The Super Famicom.
ZUN: What do you define as retro gaming? In terms of time frame?
JS: Everyone debates it. I think we’ve reached a point where, because classic games are being re-released, and that older style of 2D is being used again, it’s less about old and new, and more about ethos. Today I can play new games in a style I’ve not seen for 20 years.
ZUN: No one knows what “retro” is exactly, do they? In Japan, too, they use terms like this one here, <points to author’s business card> “retro classic reporter”, but I’m not sure whether the stuff they talk about is truly “retro”.
JS: This magazine covers everything from the origin of games all the way up until around the Dreamcast. It’s the cut-off point at the moment.
ZUN: So it’s not to do with 3D or 2D?
JS: No. There were also 3D games in the 1980s. Какие ваши любимые старые игры?
ZUN: <смех> Есть огромное количество игр, которые мне очень нравятся с давних времён, так что это может выйти из-под контроля! Очень трудно выбрать. Но у меня есть ответ, который я всегда даю в этой ситуации. Конечно, это «Super Mario Bros.». Это то, что я говорю людям, но на самом деле выбрать мою любимую игру из той эпохи практически невозможно. Я действительно не могу этого сделать.

Эскиз комнаты ZUN'а на 2013 год

JS: Touhou’s popularity has exploded. Do you feel some fans take what Touhou means too far? Do you feel you might lose control over it?
ZUN: It’s not something I have a problem with. Generally speaking, there are a lot of fans out there who are very driven, and every interested in my series, but in terms of creative control, it’s not really something I am that worried about, or concerned by, to be honest. A lot of fans are very good at getting permission, or asking me, I’m going to do this or that, and that’s fine. There are plenty of things out there as well that I was never asked about, that were made using characters of mine, or whatever. But it’s not something that troubles me so much. At times I’ve thought that it would be terrible if I stopped liking games because of a fan-related issue. But that’s never happened. I have the freedom to make the games I want, and that’s enough.

JS: It’s a nice attitude to have. Some large companies have clamped down on fans.
ZUN: Well, it definitely can be a problem, and I can understand why companies do that, but it’s not how I deal with it.

JS: Fans create their own stories for characters – do you have a canonical story planned out? Do you conceive of it beforehand, or as you need it?
ZUN: In terms of development, whenever I start working on a new game one of the first things I do is decide what the story will be. I don’t do it at the same time as programming the game, I do it beforehand. In terms of taking influence from the fan stuff, I don’t really pay much attention to it. I don’t really read them or play them, so I don’t really think there’s much influence from the fans on the actual Touhou series. I make the stories I want to make, basically. I don’t incorporate ideas from the fan works, so they’re not really an influence on me.

JS: I know some fan creations tend to veer towards, shall we say, amorous themes between certain characters.
ZUN: It’s not something I particularly like, and sometimes it’s a bit too much. The fans are free to do what they want, but it’s not something I like. I have no plans to put something like that into one of my games. <laughs>
Джон: Вы работаете в одиночку и создаёте все игры прямо в своём доме?
ZUN: Да, я делаю это у себя дома.

Джон: Можно мне эскиз планировки?
ZUN: А, хорошо! Да, конечно. <смеётся> Только мой кабинет?

Джон: Конечно, или весь дом, как хочешь.
ZUN: Всё это правда происходит в одной комнате. Есть компьютер, книжные шкафы, стул и холодильник.

JS: What kind of games have you been into recently? Play anything interesting?
ZUN: Dragon’s Crown just came out. That’s a cool game, I’m enjoying that.

JS: Do you play many games from computer download services, such as GOG or Steam?
ZUN: I’m not a big FPS player, but just about any other genre I can get into. So I’ve been playing some Sim City, some Civilisation, that kind of stuff. In terms of digital distribution services, I think they’re great. I’m thinking about Touhou and those kinds of systems, and it’s something that maybe I’ll go into, in the future.

Джон: Что в холодильнике?
ZUN: Пиво! <смеётся> Это мой холодильник для пива.

Джон: Какая-нибудь конкретная марка?
ZUN: На данный момент я очень люблю виски премиум-класса. Время от времени это меняется, но сейчас это виски премиум-класса. Там много книжных полок, и в основном это связано с программированием, играми и прочим. Есть два компьютера и два экрана. У меня есть один компьютер для разработки, и один для отладки. У меня есть музыкальная клавиатура для создания игровой музыки… и всё. Это всего лишь комната в шесть татами. Татами из Канто, конечно, это не то же самое, что татами из Киото. В любом случае… 6 татами.

Джон: В серии «Тохо» много персонажей. По одной из оценок, я слышал, что там более 150 персонажей. Это правда? Большинство также кажется симпатичными девушками.
ZUN: Я не знаю, сколько там персонажей в серии. <смеётся> Я никогда не считал. Я вполне уверен, что фанаты, считающие их в Интернете, наверное, точны. Так что, конечно, 150, возможно. С точки зрения того, почему в серии больше девушек, чем мужчин, это определенно сознательное дизайнерское решение, которое я принял. Я считаю, что стиль даммаку-игр имеет женский аспект. Это не состязание силы лицом к лицу, вы не просто бегаете и уничтожаете врага.

JS: Right, in an action game with soldiers, or people carrying guns, the image is one of men.
ZUN: В случае с даммаку я пытаюсь делать красивые игры. То, как пули двигаются, как в игру играют, это визуальное зрелище, и я думаю, что в нём есть красота. Когда вы думаете о красоте в общем, вы склонны думать о женщинах, а не о мужчинах, так что это скорее случай… Я думаю, что даммаку и игры, которые я создаю, больше касаются эстетики, чем экшена. Несмотря на то, что в них есть пули, они не об оружии. Я думаю, что люди, наверное, предполагают, что я вставляю много девушек, потому что так хотят мои фанаты, но это не тот случай. Это не имеет к этому никакого отношения. Я думаю, что введение персонажей абсолютно влияет на игровой процесс и на дизайн игры. Они вовсе не произвольны, они являются частью дизайна игры.

JS: A very eloquent answer.
ZUN: Yes, it’s definitely to do with that, and I certainly think it’s okay to feature both male and female characters in games, but I do feel like if I put a lot of male characters in the game, it will make the game seem like a more aggressive, toe-to-toe contest. Also, something that I think maybe people assume, is that I put a lot of girls in because it’s what my fans want, but that’s not the case. That has nothing to do with it.

JS: I know from planning the book’s cover, there seems to be a growing aversion to the feminine form. It’s an excellent policy to focus on your own vision. Many creators today are worried about trying to appeal to everyone, and companies have focus groups to increase sales.
ZUN: I definitely think that is an issue, although I would say if they do it well, I don’t really have a problem with it. But I can see where you’re coming from with that. I would say that in terms of Touhou, one of the things that I’m doing, and one of things I’m aware of, is I try to invent or use characters that I believe link to the style of the level.

JS: So a tricky level might have a mysterious looking character, compared to an easy level where a character would appear friendly?
ZUN: I think that putting in characters – certainly in terms of Touhou – it’s not just to sell titles or to appeal, I think it absolutely has an effect on the gameplay and on the game’s design. They’re not arbitrary at all, they’re part of the design of the game.

JS: I think fans notice. Something which is scary to hear in the West is, “Oh yeah, we went to a focus group to make decisions for us.” Which then dilutes the vision of the creator.
ZUN: I think most companies in Japan do it as well. For example, a company might look at Touhou and think, “That’s pretty successful, so let’s stick a load of pretty girls in our game, it’s bound to work.” That kind of thinking is pervasive now, but it’s an attitude that doesn’t come from the actual game developers.

Джон: Я хотел спросить о Комикете. Можете ли вы описать свои воспоминания о нём?
ZUN: Причина, по которой я выбрал Комикет, заключается в том, что для команды разработчиков, состоящей из одного человека, это был единственный известный мне способ, который дал бы мне возможность продавать свои игры. Я не сравнивал его ни с чем. Также теперь через (онлайн) сервисы можно загружать игры на любые количество гигабайт. Но в то время, когда я создавал оригинальные «Тохо», люди не могли достать игры, которые были настолько большими. Так что это должно было быть физическое распространение. Это должно было быть рука об руку. Когда я думал о том, в какой среде я могу это сделать, Комикет был единственным, о ком я знал. Даже сейчас Комикет — единственное место, где я могу действительно думать о том, где я могу распространять физические копии, с реальной упаковкой. Я получаю удовольствие от передачи продукта клиенту и от встречи с ним лицом к лицу. Это часть того, что мне нравится во всём этом процессе. Поэтому я думаю, что даже если я стану работать в цифровом формате, я всегда буду заниматься и продажей в коробке.

Джон: Вы помните, как впервые продали что-то на Комикете? У вас есть фотографии?
ZUN: <смеётся> В первый раз это было в 1997 году, и я помню это, так как для меня это было очевидно, и это было большое событие. Я бы сказал одну вещь, которая определенно поразила меня… Я взял около 30 копий первой игры серии, и 50 копий второй, так что около 80 копий вместе, чтобы продать. И я действительно подумал про себя, что я ни за что не продам их, никому не будет интересно. Но я продал их все, и я продал их довольно быстро.

JS: Did you number each copy?
ZUN: <laughs> I did not, no.

JS: I wonder where those first copies are…
ZUN: I don’t know where they all are, obviously, but I assume the people who bought them still have them. Some of them went on to become my friends, so I have friends who still have my original 1997 Comiket games, somewhere. One thing is that the people who really like these kind of doujin games, it’s the same people each year. So the fans I was selling to in 1997 and 1998, it’s still the same people who like the games today, they’ve just gotten a little bit older. Both the people who make doujin games and those who buy them, it’s often the same people each year. It’s like a community.

JS: These first few games, they were on PC-98 floppy disks? They’ve got a limited memory size; did you have to omit content to make them fit?
ZUN: If you look at it now, it’s hard to imagine fitting a game into that size of space. But to be honest with you, the games weren’t really that memory intensive. I think, generally, I got everything I wanted on to each disk, each time.

JS: Some developers put long cinemas in early computer games. In one instance I recall the opening took up two disks needing switching!
ZUN: You don’t need those movies. <laughs>

JS: Did you attend Comiket before you started selling games?
ZUN: No, I did not. The first time I ever went to Comiket was to start selling the Touhou series.

JS: There’s nothing quite like Comiket outside of Japan. I know there’s many conventions outside Japan, such as PAX and so on, but the enormous scale of Comiket, its long-running history, and the diverse nature of its homegrown products, makes it unmatched. For me it has this mysterious allure. С годами всё изменилось?
ZUN: Я думаю, что фундаментальная, основополагающая идея и дизайн Комикета на самом деле не сильно изменились. Я бы сказал, что масштаб стал больше, как с точки зрения посещения фанатов, так и с точки зрения поставщиков. Кроме того, увеличивается количество приезжающих из-за рубежа. Я думаю, что он стал более открытым. Но я думаю, что концепция Комикета осталась более или менее неизменной с тех пор, как я начал ходить в 1997 году. Тогда, когда Комикет был более подпольным феноменом, додзин-материал скорее считался сомнительным с точки зрения авторского права и законности. Люди делали додзин, и хотя это не было совсем незаконно, оно существовало в какой-то серой области авторского права. Так что у Комикета была более скрытная, подпольная атмосфера. Но теперь Комикет гораздо более открыт, и люди не так сильно об этом беспокоятся.

JS: Is this because illegal content was banned?
ZUN: No, it’s because it’s NOT banned, so doujin creators don’t have to be… [so secretive and cautious anymore]. Теперь, когда додзин-игры стали устоявшимся жанром, появилось много оригинального контента, так что это не проблема. На самом деле, я думаю, что создатели додзин-игр могут позволить себе быть чуть более смелыми. Хм… Как бы это сказать? Очевидно, что нелегальный контент не должен распространяться, но я думаю, что в мире додзин-игр недостаточно «вторичных игр». Это деликатный вопрос.

Слово эксперта Мэтта Фитско

Когда Комикет начался в 1970-х годах, подавляющее большинство посетителей составляли женщины, покупающие и продающие второстепенные работы из манги, а также оригинальные творения (в том числе довольно много яоя, или «любви между мальчиками»). Возможно, это не должно быть так удивительно, учитывая, что женщины всегда играли ведущую роль в фанфиковых сообществах, и на Западе тоже. Когда речь заходит о содержании рискованного контента, женщины изобрели «слешфики», по сути, в одиночку. Вопреки популярным представлениям, даже сегодня большинство создателей додзина, продающих работы на Комикете, - женщины, около 60% по состоянию на Comiket #84 (лето 2013). Исторически сложилось так, среди создателей додзин-контента женщины превосходили мужчин в два раза. Демографические данные, вероятно, склоняются в сторону мужчин в додзин-играх и додзин-ПО, в частности, но важно отметить, что огромный кусок общей продукции додзин, даже действительно хардкорные вещи, на самом деле создаются и потребляются женщинами.

Комикеты сейчас гораздо более открыты, а додзин-кружки гораздо меньше боятся нарушить авторское право, так что сейчас больше производных работ, чем когда-либо. Некоторые люди на коммерческой стороне вещей открыто принимают додзин-сообщество. Например, есть манга-художник и бывший додзин Кен Акамацу,который разработал специальный водяной знак «додзин-разрешено» для коммерческих художников, чтобы печатать на своих работах, подобно лицензии Creative Commons. Для манги с этим знаком додзин-кружки могут свободно создавать любые второстепенные произведения, которые они хотят, бесплатно или для продажи, не опасаясь репрессий со стороны владельца авторских прав.

ZUN отмечает, что существует не так уж и много производных додзин-игр, что, безусловно, верно по сравнению с изобилием производных додзинси (журналы и комиксы). Возможно, это связано с тем, что такие компании, как Nintendo, очень склонны посылать повестку в суд, когда речь заходит о фанатских играх. Две фанатские игры по «Chrono Trigger», которые были закрыты, являются известными примерами на Западе, но это случалось и в Японии. Например: там была додзин-игра в стиле «Power Stone» по Харухи Судзумии. Она была не порнографической, но по какой-то причине Kadokawa закрыли её. У «Тохо» на сегодняшний день самая большая коллекция производных додзин-игр. «Тохо» уникальна тем, что в то время как большинство второстепенных додзин-игр основаны на основной коммерческой собственности, такой как популярное аниме, с «Тохо» оригинальная работа сама по себе является додзин. «Тохо» процветала благодаря снисходительному отношению ZUN к производному материалу, основанному на его работе. Как он указывает, он хотел бы видеть больше второстепенных додзин-игр, основанных на коммерческих работах.

JS: I came to Japan last time in 2001. I’ve noticed an increase in mobile phone gaming, which is changing the industry. Does this concern you? Would you put Touhou on phones?
ZUN: I think it will continue going into the future. I myself play a lot of games on mobile phones. The problem I think with smartphones is a lot of games get ported straight over, and they get ported from a system where there are actual controls – like a physical controller, or built-in to the machine. On a smartphone these can be quite irritating to play, and I think it can have a negative impact on the game. I think Touhou is definitely a game that needs a controller, or would be difficult to play on the screen alone. If I ever come up with a fun game idea that’s suited to a smartphone, something that couldn’t be done except on a smartphone, then I might make a smartphone game.

JS: Would your fans be upset?
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t think they’d get upset at all. If I come up with an idea, maybe I’ll do it.

JS: Hypothetical situation: Microsoft comes to you with a generous contract to make a Kinect-only Touhou game. What do you say?
ZUN: <laughs> If that happened, it would not be a Touhou game as any of us know it. I think trying to force a game like Touhou on to a Kinect system would make a really, really bad game, and it would not be fun. <laughs> If I could think of something that I think would work well with the Kinect, and was designed specifically for the Kinect, then yes. If I could think of a good concept, I might do it.

JS: Microsoft insisted the next Steel Battalion should use Kinect, and it was universally regarded as unplayable.
ZUN: Absolutely. I think the best thing to do is to take the game idea first, and then make or find the right controller for that. Not to look at the controller or system, and then try to force a game to work with that controller. That’s why I think arcade games are excellent. Because every single idea has the possibility of a custom controller for it, and it’s exactly what it needs – nothing more, nothing less.

JS: Do you consider your audience outside Japan, when making Touhou games? To what extent do you interact with fans outside Japan?
ZUN: Well, to be honest with you, I don’t really communicate with my Japanese fans, so of course I don’t really communicate with my foreign fans either. In September [2013] I went to an event in Atlanta, in America, I sort of made an appearance. I was shocked at how many Touhou fans there are in America. I couldn’t believe it! [As for creating a Touhou game aimed at a Western audience], it’s not something I’ve ever considered.

JS: You’re a tricky man to get hold of. I only managed through Mr Kimura. How did you first meet and become friends with him?
ZUN: I met him last year. Kimura-san does a sort of broadcast, a live broadcast on Ustream, called Poripori Club, where he talks about games and has guest speakers. And he invited me along, and that’s how we got to know each other, and now I do it sometimes too. We became friends through that. We’ve never worked together on a title, or anything like that, though.

JS: Have you considered working alongside Mr Kimura on a game?
ZUN: It’s possible but unlikely. I like to keep my business partners and my friends separate.

JS: When business is involved, friendships can go up in flames.
ZUN: <laughs> If I worked with my friends, we’d probably just get into arguments.

JS: You worked at Taito for a while?
ZUN: That’s right. For about 10 years, yes.
JS: For 10 years?
ZUN: At Taito, yes. From 1998 until around 2008 or 2007.
JS: There’s little info online regarding that.
ZUN: There’s not much in Japanese either! <laughs>
JS: Are you happy to talk about it?
ZUN: Yes, it’s fine.
JS: Perhaps you can solve a mystery for me.
ZUN: A mystery! <laughs>

JS: In the early 1990s Taito was working with a company called WoWoW, to develop the Taito WoWoW game system. It was a CD-based console, meant to have online capabilities and play arcade perfect ports. It was shown at trade shows, but never released…
ZUN: <cuts in>… I don’t think it was something I was involved with at all I’m afraid. <laughs>

JS: But did anyone at Taito ever talk about it?
ZUN: It was cancelled before I joined Taito, so unfortunately it wasn’t really something people were talking about when I was there. I’m afraid I really don’t know anything about it.

JS: I thought perhaps a colleague lamented: “I worked on a machine, but it never came out!”
ZUN: There was this one machine that Taito released. It was a console that worked as a home karaoke machine, but it also had games. It was basically a game console. It was a game console that you could also use as a karaoke machine. The Taito X-55.155 It was meant to be a karaoke machine, but games got released for it. But it barely sold any units. <laughs>
JS: Now Taito’s been absorbed by Square-Enix.
ZUN: Well, they still exist. They’re a child company of Square-Enix, but they are still around in a sense. They’re not developing games anymore. They predominantly work in the field of game centres in Japan.

JS: The way I understand it, Taito was your day job to pay the bills, whereas Team Shanghai Alice was the way you expressed yourself?
ZUN: That’s exactly how I felt as well.
JS: Where were you before Taito? Studying?
ZUN: I was at university. I went straight from university and did job hunting, and the first place I went was Taito. I joined as a programmer.

JS: Can you recall the process of joining?
ZUN: I went to a setsumeikai; it was like an explanatory meeting. That time, in 1998, when I was looking for work, it was called the “ice age of job hunting” in Japan. It was a really rough time, so you would go to every interview you could, you would attend everything. Getting that offer from Taito was a relief for me, and that’s why I took it immediately. <laughs> At the Taito setsumeikai I went to, there was about 10'000 applicants who went, from lots of different universities. They hired five people. That’s the kind of ratio. It was a tough time to be looking for work.
JS: That’s almost like winning a small lottery.
ZUN: Actually, the reason I got my placement was because I’d already made some games while at university. I just showed them the games I had made, and was hired immediately. Thinking about it now, the Touhou games I made while in university were only profitable in that they helped me get a job. <laughs> I didn’t make them specifically to get a job, but they opened many doors for me.

Джон: Знали ли Taito, что вы продолжаете делать додзин-игры? Одобряли ли они это? Вы поэтому разрабатывали под псевдонимом?
ZUN: Когда я только начинал, я действительно скрывал это. There were some co-workers of mine who were making doujin games as well. У Taito было правило, что ты не должен был этого делать. Но я думаю, что люди, которые это делали, просто делали это в любом случае. Но это не причина, по которой я покинул Taito. Это не было связано, просто чтобы прояснить. <смеётся> Taito не запрещал мне работать над «Тохо». На самом деле они спрашивали меня, не хочу ли я выпустить «Тохо» как обычную аркадную игру под брендом Taito. Я наотрез отказался. «НЕТ!» <смеётся> Но даже после этого они не сказали прямо, что я не могу производить додзин-игры. Вообще-то нам не полагалось работать над личными проектами, но большинство сотрудников компании смотрели на это сквозь пальцы. The other thing to consider is, from Taito’s perspective, those of us making doujin games on the side, it was really good practise for us. It helped us to improve at our jobs.

JS: It’s interesting they wanted to put their name on it. They would own the property.
ZUN: Absolutely. I feel that, not only could they then control it, but also I would lose my autonomy. I didn’t like that. Hypothetically, if that had happened, and Taito had gotten hold of the Touhou name, I’d probably have worked on whatever game I agreed to do it with, but that would have been the end of Touhou from me. I like making games where I am in control. I don’t want to be beholden to someone.

JS: Could you sketch a layout of Taito’s office?
ZUN: <laughs> Taito kept redesigning its layout. So it might be a bit difficult. I don’t know if I can remember them all.

JS: Maybe your favourite layout? Or the oldest?
ZUN: If you can think of a Taito game that you would like the office layout for, I might be able to do that.

JS: Can you recall the first game you worked on?
ZUN: The first game was for the PS2… It was Greatest Striker, a soccer game.
JS: But if you joined in 1998…
ZUN: The game came out in early 2000, immediately after the release of the PS2, so the development period was prior to that. The PS2 devkits were already available in 1998.156 I was assigned to work on initial research into the system. I did that for a long time, exploring what could be achieved with the PS2.
JS: Benchmarking the hardware?
ZUN: That’s right. I wrote software libraries for Taito to use in PS2 game development.

JS: How long does it take to make a game?
ZUN: It takes about 4 months to go from original planning and deciding to start, to finishing.

JS: How has your development process changed from when you first started?
ZUN: My method, my approach, hasn’t really changed. I think the only thing that’s really changed is that I do it in a nicer place now. <laughs>

JS: How about the Taito offices?
ZUN: The Taito offices are not so interesting – are you sure you want them? They’re literally just an office.
JS: Well, that in itself is interesting.
ZUN: OK, I’ll draw the office layout for Graffiti Kingdom.

JS: You worked on the soccer game for PS2, Magic Pengel, Bujingai, Graffiti Kingdom, and Exit. Are those the only games from Taito?
ZUN: That’s right, I worked on those games. And then after we did Exit I also worked on a bunch of different games, which I don’t really recall. Some of them for PS3, some of them for the Wii, but none of them got released.
JS: Did that happen a lot at Taito?
ZUN: Hm, for the most part. It happened a lot.

JS: Tell me more! If a game is unreleased, the words you say now could be the only record.
ZUN: Eh… There are a lot of things that I can’t tell you. For various reasons. <nervous laughter> Bujingai 2 was in development and looked really good, but never got released. <nervous laughter> So that game existed…

JS: I bought Bujingai (right) the other day, in Akihabara.
ZUN: Was it released in the West?

JS: Yes. It was released in America and Europe.
ZUN: Actually, I worked on the localisation a little bit! I helped with the process of allowing fonts and sizing, and so on.

JS: 505 Street Games was the publisher in Europe. It’s a small Italian company. They would bring over unusual Japanese games and release them in miniscule quantities.
ZUN: <laughs>

JS: I have no idea how they made money.
ZUN: I see, indeed. <slightly melancholy> We worked really hard on them… <hands over Taito office sketch> Is it OK if it just looks a bit like this? I’ve written in Japanese. This is the server room. These are the titles of the games being worked on in different places around the office.

JS: I know some people imported Bujingai direct from Japan, to get it earlier.
ZUN: Honestly though, it wasn’t that great a game, I think. <laughs> I think the sequel was going to be better! It’s a shame.

JS: What can you tell us about Bujingai 2? Can you draw some sketches showing it?
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t think I can tell you very much about it! I don’t want to get in trouble. But I think the people who were working on it, were really enthusiastic about it. They were making it sillier and more tongue-in-cheek than the original.

JS: If you had to guess a number, how many unreleased games have you seen?
ZUN: <long pause> I can think of about six titles that were in development, or had work done on them, that never got released.

JS: If you ever want to talk about these games – you’ve got my email address.
ZUN: <laughs> It hasn’t yet been 10 years since I left Taito. If Taito ever does get shut down, then it’s open season. Until then, it’s a little difficult.

JS: Have you ever started a Touhou game and didn’t finish it? Are there unreleased Touhou?
ZUN: Because I’m making them on my own, obviously I’m not really beholden to other people. So the only time it happens is when I play it and then I go, “Oh, this isn’t much fun.” So I’ve had games in the series, or I’ve had times, where I’ve gone back and made changes. That happens and it’s a process of improvement. I don’t think I’ve ever cancelled a Touhou game. Every Touhou game that I’ve set out to make has been released or come out. In terms of story there are some parts that I was developing into games, and then I thought, “Ah, this part of the story is boring. I’m not going to put it in.” So the story of Touhou as a whole series, it’s not exactly complete. It has an overarching story, but there are some parts that are not in any game.

Джон: Были ли какие-то новые механики в игре, с которыми вы экспериментировали, но свернули? Не могли бы вы описать эти механики?
ZUN: Да, конечно. Есть кое-какие вещи, которые я хотел бы вставить. Одна из них — то, что я назвал «сетевой галереей», и идея заключалась в том, чтобы иметь систему, в которой, когда вы играете, вы подключаетесь к Интернету, и тогда другие игроки могли бы смотреть, как вы играете. В ней также была бы очень простая система обмена сообщениями, так что, если вы попадете в систему, зрители смогут послать сообщение, говорящее «не повезло» или что-то в этом роде. Я думал об этом еще в 2005 году, наверное? Сейчас есть игры с такой функцией, но я думаю, что рассматривал это несколько лет назад. В конце концов, этого не случилось, но мне показалось, что это может быть интересно.

JS: I’m picturing something like NicoNico Douga, where messages stream across the screen.
ZUN: Actually, the reason I didn’t do it, is because while I was thinking about it and working on the game, that’s when the age of online streaming or online video began, and I saw NicoNico and thought, “Well, this is fine. I don’t need to do it.” Why bother putting it in the game when someone already provides the service? I guess the necessity disappeared so I didn’t do it. <laughs>
JS: This interview will say you had the idea first.
ZUN: I don’t know. I think maybe quite a lot of people were working on that process at once, and maybe it’s just that NicoNico were the fastest in Japan. Certainly I was thinking about doing it for my game, but I had never thought of the concept of having a website where loads of different games could be streamed. So maybe I was not the first. It was an idea of mine that didn’t come to fruition.
The reason I thought about doing that was because… If you ever go to an arcade in Japan, and you see there’s a really good player on a shooting game, someone really skilled, they will have a crowd of people watching them. And I thought the people in Japan who would go to watch skilled players, they must have the internet now. So I’m sure they’d want to do it online as well. I thought there would be people interested in this.
JS: Indeed, superplay DVDs are very popular. They have footage of an extremely skilled player going through a game showcasing this skill.
ZUN: Yes, they are popular. It’s definitely evidence that people like watching excellent players. From my experience with the chat messages on NicoNico and so on, I think one thing that people really love is watching live streams, because they get a chance to see even the expert players mess up. <laughs>

Джон: Вы считаете себя додзин или инди? Есть ли какая-то разница?
ZUN: В последнее время меня часто об этом спрашивают. Я бы сказал, что инди, инди-бум, если хотите, пришел с Запада. Несколько лет назад я начал слышать истории о том, как популярны инди-игры на Западе. И я подумал про себя, что содержание инди- и додзин-игр очень похоже. Додзин включает в себя много некоммерческой деятельности, в то время как я считаю, что инди должна преуспеть.

Слово эксперта Мэтта Фитско

Грань между инди и додзином в Японии размыта, но всё ещё существует узнаваемое различие между инди-играми (インディーズ), которые рассматриваются как относительно новое явление, в основном происходящее на Западе, и традиционной додзин-сценой, которая с 1970-х годов непрерывно разворачивается за кулисами. Инди рассматривается как новый захватывающий коммерческий феномен, реакция на слишком большое количество ААА-игр, а также напоминание о малых и средних разработчиках, которые исчезают в последнее десятилетие. Такая манера мышления приводит к тому, что Инафунэ говорит, что оригинальные игры серии «Mega Man», например, были по сути «инди». Они были созданы в мелкомасштабной, творчески ориентированной среде развития, которая сегодня существует редко. С другой стороны, додзин предлагает поистине любительский стиль творческой деятельности (в буквальном смысле любительского; «за любовь к искусству»), более близкий к значению «фандом» на английском языке. Додзин-материалы продаются среди поклонников, но в крошечных количествах, и редко в ожидании фактической прибыли (согласно отчету 2010 года, только около 10% создателей додзина зарабатывают более 20 000 йен (~$2 000), продавая товары на Комикете, в то время как около 70% фактически теряют деньги). Успех и признание на самом деле не является фактором, и додзин-игры, которые прорвались к мейнстриму успеха («Higurashi», Corpse Party, Yatagarasu) являются редчайшими исключениями.

JS: Would you continue making Touhou games if nobody bought the next one?
ZUN: Well, it would certainly be depressing if nobody bought my games! On the other hand, I believe that if I make something good, it will sell. You could say that I’ve become more like an indie developer as opposed to a doujin developer. Among doujin creators at Comiket, even those who have released commercial products like an indie developer, I think many of them aren’t necessarily concerned with being successful.

JS: Until what time are you free?
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t mind, I really don’t mind.

JS: I think this is great content we’re covering.
ZUN: <laughs> As long as there’s beer, I can answer questions all night.

JS: Which Touhou game sold the most?
ZUN: The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, in 2002, was the most sold. I like to bring back old characters in the new games, so there’s a loop with the character appearances. Often, when I make a new game, the old ones sell a little bit more, so they have an advantage.

JS: Which do you feel is most popular with fans?
ZUN: That’s difficult… I think Perfect Cherry Blossom, 2003 (right), might be the most. And also Mountain of Faith, from 2007 was also quite popular. Also, the one I released this year, the most recent one, [Double Dealing Character, 2013], was also very popular. So maybe those three. You’ll have to check the English name.

Джон: Мне нравятся английские названия ваших игр. Вы сами их выбираете?
ZUN: Правильно. Но в целом это не то же самое, что кандзи, для названия. Я смотрю на историю, а потом пытаюсь найти слова, связывающие с историей.

JS: I was interviewing the creator of the arcade game Strider, who said he liked names which didn’t make sense. I asked if he had any suggestions for the name of my book. If you have any ideas, please suggest them.
ZUN: Are you going to release it in Japanese and in English?

JS: Just English at the moment. The current title is a little dry.
ZUN: I don’t have any ideas, but I’ll think about! <laughs>

JS: Your titles in English are very poetic.
ZUN: <laughs – waves hand as if to decline> They’re original, but I think the reason is because I cannot do English, so I don’t know how good they are.

JS: As a native English speaker… <notices second signature book> There’s two books…
ZUN: Can I write a different thing in each one?

JS: Oh, sure. Anything you like… As a native English speaker, for me the titles resonate with a kind of poetry.
ZUN: <laughs> I really didn’t think about them too hard! The way I choose them, it’s the same with both the Japanese and the English. I choose words that sound nice when you say them aloud.

JS: It’s a system that works.
ZUN: <laughs> Thank you very much. I’ve always wondered.

JS: I think it’s preferable to Hideo Kojima, who just invents words which make no sense. REVENGEANCE!
ZUN: <perplexed> He does that on purpose?

JS: Kojima is really popular, so he can get away with whatever he wants.
ZUN: That must be nice.

Джон: У вас есть PS3 или Xbox 360?
ZUN: Да, у меня есть Wii, WiiU, 360 и PS3.

Джон: Вы собираетесь купить новые?
ZUN: Наверное, так и будет. Но я даже не знаю, придет ли Xbox One в Японию. Это не кажется таким уж популярным. Но я, наверное, куплю PS4.

Джон: Это может быть обратная ситуация с Xbox One. Японским фанатам приходится импортировать машину, аналогично тому, как европейцы импортировали PC Engine и тому подобное в своё время.
ZUN: PC Engine не выходил за границей?

Джон: Он вышел в Америке, как TG-16, и небольшое количество было продано на PAL-территориях.
ZUN: А PC-FX?

Джон: Он вообще не продавался за пределами Японии.
ZUN: Он не продавался внутри Японии!

<каждый громко смеётся>

Джон: Как вы относитесь к тому, что иностранные фанаты создают патчи для перевода ваших игр на английский язык?
ZUN: У меня нет вообще никаких проблем с этим. Очевидно, поскольку я не могу говорить по-английски, я не могу делать игры на английском языке. Это здорово, это позволяет большему количеству людей играть в эти игры. Я очень благодарен.

JS: Are you worried about the quality?
ZUN: I can’t tell but I think that, actually, the people who are willing to put in the time and effort to translate it, would do their best. It shows a lot of dedication.

JS: If a Western publisher of Japanese PC games approached you to officially translate and publish outside Japan, what would you say?
ZUN: I think if I was approached by something like that, obviously I’d think about it. I’d feel like it would probably be a bit of a bother, and I honestly think I’d probably get sick of the whole process rather quickly. I think it would probably just be a hassle. I would say though, that in terms of would I rather have fan-translations, or a company translate it, I think because Touhou has such a dedicated fan-base, I feel like the fan translations are going to be better than a professional one. I think some of the content of Touhou’s stories and so on, it might be quite difficult even for Japanese speakers to understand, so I feel like, even if it’s translated directly, it won’t make any sense to a lot of people. So I feel like it’s not… I’ve been thinking, I might just sell it in the West, in Japanese. I don’t think it’s necessary to speak Japanese to be able to enjoy the game, the artwork, the playing, and so on. Translating stuff takes a long time and can be very difficult.

JS: It’s interesting mentioning the difficulty of dealing with Western publishers. Because Treasure was tweeting about the immense difficulty of bringing Ikaruga to the West.
ZUN: It seems like there’s not much to translate for Ikaruga…

JS: It wasn’t the translation, but things like the contract with Steam.
ZUN: Treasure are not doujin, but it’s definitely something I think a lot of doujin developers feel. I think most doujin developers would like to release their games on Steam if they could.

JS: Do you have any advice for someone who wants to make doujin or indie games?
ZUN: My advice for people who want to make games, doujin in particular, is make them. Don’t worry about it, just make them. Just do it. That’s all the advice I can honestly give. You’ve just got to make them. I think it’s getting easier and easier as well for people to make games on their own. Because the technology you have available, and the documentation you have available for free, is leagues ahead of what was available in the past. I think the support and the network is there.

JS: There’s also tools like GameMaker.
ZUN: I think when it comes to developing your own games, there’s not really anything you have to avoid. As long as you do whatever you want for your development. I think after you’ve made the game, learning about what to do next, that is something you should do. But I think you should make the game first, and then when it comes to the release aspect, and publishing, that’s when you need to read up. In terms of making the game, just do it.

JS: Do you want to comment on leaving Taito?
ZUN: First of all, I no longer had a real need to stay at Taito, thanks to Touhou. I decided that I would quit after the completion of the games I was currently working on at Taito. One of those games was for the PS3, I worked on it for over a year and then it was just cancelled. That was kind of a blow. And then the next one was meant to be for the WiiU. I was already thinking about quitting at that point, but for the WiiU title, one of my colleagues working under my supervision had proposed the game design, and it was the first time a game proposal by that person had ever been accepted. So I decided I would continue on for my colleague, and then bail out as soon as the game was completed. But ultimately that game was cancelled too, and I realized there was no longer any reason for me tostay at the company.

JS: You became disenchanted?
ZUN: Yes, I was not enjoying it in the end. For the last two years nothing I was working on was getting released. I wasn’t moving up the company. I thought to myself, this just isn’t any fun anymore.

JS: Can you say the name of the PS3 game?
ZUN: No, I cannot tell you that! <laughs>

JS: You said Touhou has become popular. There’s even conventions dedicated to it. You’ve seen it grow over the last 17 years. It must almost be like a watching a child grow up…
ZUN: <laughs> I don’t consider it so much my child, I consider it my life’s work. Obviously I’m overjoyed. To have the thing that you base your life around be this successful is wonderful. It’s a fantastic feeling. I’m very happy that the fans get so much joy from it.

JS: <noticing name on ZUN’s business card> After leaving Taito you formed Korindo?
ZUN: Yes, that’s right. It’s just me, my company.

JS: Like Shanghai Alice?
ZUN: I had to form a company, because if you don’t it’s hard to keep selling things in Japan. <laughs> So I created Korindo. Shanghai Alice is more like a brand, it’s not a company. Shanghai Alice is what I do, but Korindo facilitates that, it’s the name I put it under.

JS: You have to deal with taxes and logistics?
ZUN: Yes, taxes have been a problem in the past.

JS: Have you ever felt the urge to work in genres other than shooting games? Perhaps RPGs? You’ve collaborated on other projects.
ZUN: Are you asking would I like to do that? Yes, absolutely, of course I would. I think everybody would. But, honestly, I want to make danmaku shooting games even more. That’s what I love. I want to try lots of things, but one of them will always be shooting games.

JS: I believe you got married in 2012?
ZUN: Yes, I got married.

JS: To another programmer?
ZUN: Yes, she’s a game programmer, at a games company.

JS: Do you discuss programming techniques?
ZUN: We don’t really talk about Touhou, but we do talk about programming. The area of games she programs is unrelated. They’re smartphone games.

JS: Perhaps she could give some advice on bringing your games to smartphones?
ZUN: <laughs> Yes, maybe! But I’ll still do it on my own, because you keep your friends separate from your co-workers.
<everyone laughs>

JS: Exactly! If you could have made any game which was made by someone else, what would it be? You can’t say Super Mario Bros.
ZUN: There’s a whole bunch. <laughs> It’s difficult. I think if I give a specific answer, I’ll change my mind later. To be absolutely honest with you, whenever I play a game that’s really fun, I have that feeling. <with strong emotion> Every time I play a game that I enjoy I always have this feeling of, “I wish I’d thought of that!” So every game I enjoy, I guess is the answer.

JS: The book is coming out the middle of next year. So technically this question will be out of date. But do you have ideas for the next Touhou?
ZUN: I actually just finished the last game. So I really don’t know what I’m doing for the next one yet. It came out in August, so only a few weeks ago.

JS: How long a break do you usually take between each title?
ZUN: I take regular breaks. It takes me about four months to produce the game, which means the other eight months of the year are… I don’t know if you could call them a holiday, but the pace I go at is about one title a year. Obviously I use that time, I’m not just relaxing. I really do spend a lot of time thinking and making preliminary designs for the next title. That process is always ongoing.

JS: According to this list in English, there was no game released in 2006… Shoot the Bullet (2005); Mountain of Faith (2007).
ZUN: Indeed. Well, it was a time obviously when I was still working at Taito, so my time was less my own. I had to balance Touhou development with my job. The other thing is, you’ll notice sometimes there are certain years where I did two, and some years where I only did one. It’s because it was unpredictable for me in terms of how much time and energy I would have to spend on the games. So there’s no real reason 2006 didn’t have a game. It’s just the way it happened. I guess you could say, although I can’t remember why, I guess 2006 was a particularly busy year for me at Taito, and as a result Touhou had to be sort of put on the backburner for a while.

Джон: Я всегда спрашиваю о псевдонимах и прозвищах. Расскажите мне о ZUN'е.
ZUN: С точки зрения того, почему я не использую свое настоящее имя, это культурная вещь. В додзин-культуре, я думаю, большинство разработчиков делают то же самое. Вот почему я решил использовать псевдоним. С точки зрения того, почему я выбрал ZUN, ну, мое настоящее имя — Дзюнъя, а ZUN звучит как Дзюн.

JS: A lot of people outside Japan use their three initials. Am I correct that in Japan no-one has a middle name, so you have to get creative?
ZUN: There are also a lot of people who just put a full stop in the middle of the two letters.

JS: We’ve spoken about your games. But it’s more than that. A lot of people love the music. Tell me about that, since I believe you have no formal training in music?
ZUN: Originally I belonged to the concert band, or orchestra club, while in school. The ultimate reason why I created Touhou is because I wanted to make game music at first. I was more interested in making music for games rather than the games themselves. So I made all this music, and I thought great, I’ll find someone’s game and put it in. But I didn’t know anybody who was actually making games. So the next thing I thought was, right, I better make a game for this music to be used in.

JS: I’ve never heard this before… Touhou was born from your desire to create a game that matched the music you had already made?
ZUN: Yes, to start with, that’s right. The reason that there’s no releases between 1998 and 2002, that’s when I started at Taito… When I decided I wanted to do doujin at that point, I was actually planning to make a doujin music group. The name of the group, Shanhai Arisu Gengakudan or “Shanghai Alice Ensemble”, actually has a musical theme. So about 6 months to a year prior to this [around 2001], I applied to Comiket as a music circle, and I got rejected! So I thought to myself, I guess I gotta make another game… <laughs> Even now when I make the games, I consider the programming of them as my job. Whereas I consider making the music for them, making music in general, to be my hobby.

JS: Is Touhou now your sole work, or business?
ZUN: Yes, absolutely, Touhou is my life’s work. It doesn’t really matter if I did a different job, people are always going to think about Touhou, or think maybe it’s related to Touhou. I actually make my own beer, and some of the fans call it Touhou beer. I actually do some reviews of alcohol, beer reviews and so on, for a magazine.

JS: In Comptiq?
ZUN: That’s right. I think my fans, even if they have no interest in alcohol, they’ll still buy the magazine because it’s by the creator of Touhou.

JS: Regarding other shmups, what do you like?
ZUN: I guess I mainly like… Well, they’re all fairly old games.

JS: That’s great.
ZUN: My number favourite would be… Darius Gaiden.

JS: Sakana no boss! (fish bosses!)
ZUN: <laughs> Yes, I really like those. I think my favourite shooting games are all from the 1980s and 1990s.

JS: Ironically, that’s before danmaku.
ZUN: I think danmaku took off with Battle Garegga, from around 1996? Which is around the same time I was doing it. Anything before then may have some elements, but it’s not a danmaku title I feel. It’s roundabout the same time Touhou started, so it was really at the dawn of the genre.

JS: CAVE was also influential on the genre.
ZUN: I really liked Pro Gear no Arashi by Cave. I love that game.

JS: I must make time to play it. Could you fill in this form, for sending out complimentary copies? Would you prefer your real name, or pseudonym. ZUN: You’ll write the kanji with English underneath?

JS: Yes. I could put both your name and ZUN.
ZUN: I think just ZUN would be good. There are probably some fans out there who might not recognise my real name.

JS: I believe you make a guest appearance in Touhou Soccer Moushuuden at the end?
ZUN: <laughs> I’ve never seen that. Am I a character in the game?

JS: Apparently, you appear at the end announcing the next tournament. Have you played any of the fan games?
ZUN: I’ve played a handful, but obviously I’d be rather busy if I played them all.

JS: What kind of challenges did you encounter when shifting from PC-98 to Windows?
ZUN: Obviously changing across was difficult, in general. But now that I look back, the PC-98 was a massive headache to work with. DirectX is amazing, and it will do whatever you tell it to. It makes worrying about hardware not so important anymore. I guess the hardest thing dealing with Windows is that there’s no standardised hardware. Everyone is using different variations. It’s frustrating when certain players can’t enjoy the new game because the hardware requirements don’t quite match.

Джон: Согласно тоховики, ваше имя связано с Зунтатой из Taito? Неужели это правда?
ZUN: Нет, здесь нет никакой связи. Вики врёт.

JS: Yes, they are often wrong.
ZUN: <laughs>

Джон: Мы уже говорили о ваших играх. Многие люди любят эту музыку. Расскажите мне об этом.
ZUN: Первоначально я принадлежал к концертной группе или оркестровому клубу, когда учился в школе. Основная причина, по которой я создал «Тохо», заключается в том, что сначала я хотел сделать игровую музыку. Меня больше интересовало создание музыки для игр, а не сами игры. Так что я сделал всю эту музыку, и я подумал, что здорово, я найду чью-нибудь игру и вставлю её. Но я не знал никого, кто бы действительно делал игры. Так что следующее, о чём я подумал, было то, что мне лучше сделать игру для этой музыки, чтобы использовать ее.

JS: One of my motivations with this book is to correct misinformation. There’s a lot of mistranslation, or missing information.
ZUN: Definitely. I think it’s something that happens a lot, and it can be a problem.

JS: One of the strangest things I’ve seen, is I’ll write an article, then a Wikipedia editor will use the article as a reference for something which isn’t related. And I think: “I didn’t imply that!”
ZUN: It happens in Japan a lot too. <finishes writing address> I’m not sure if it will get delivered or not.

JS: If it doesn’t, please email me! I’ll send a second copy to Mr Kimura.
ZUN: Thank you.

JS: Apart from Touhou do you have another job?
ZUN: Well, besides programming, I also work on things like manga projects. It’s all related to Touhou though, I don’t really have any other job.

JS: According to Twitter, apparently you started a new job in September 2009 and turned up an hour early.
ZUN: I’m not sure what that would have been! Everything I’m doing right now is related somehow to the Touhou project. I don’t have another job.

JS: Living the dream!
ZUN: <laughs> Yes, I get to do what I enjoy as my job.

Джон: Я никогда не слышал этого раньше! Есть ли какое-нибудь последнее сообщение, которое вы хотели бы передать?
ZUN: Что я хотел бы сказать, так это то, что «Тохо» в настоящее время не выпускается за границей. Это позор, потому что я знаю, что там много поклонников, я знаю, что у этого имени есть последователи. Это то, о чем я думаю, это то, что я хочу сделать. Если это произойдет, пожалуйста, я надеюсь, что вам понравятся игры, которые выходят и на Западе.

JS: I would love to see them officially come out. Maybe with Sony’s recent drive for indies, they’ll want to put a compilation on PS4 or something.
ZUN: As I said before, it’s to do with how much work it requires. I’m quite busy with the work right now. I would definitely think about.

JS: I’m looking forward to some good developments. Thank you for your time today.
ZUN: How long will this be?

JS: Maybe 20 or more pages.
ZUN: How many others in the book?

JS: I’ve interviewed over 80 developers. I’ll have to split the volumes, but you’ll be part of the core group in Volume 1.
ZUN: In general, who have you been interviewing around Japan?

JS: Everyone, actually. Japanese developers from all sections of the industry. An eclectic A-Z of everyone.
ZUN: I don’t how much I’m involved in the industry as a whole though.

JS: You’re a well known figure. It’s not only about the industry, the doujin scene is also important. My regret is that I don’t have enough time to cover the doujin scene more.

[…]

JS: Have you followed crowdfunding, such as Kickstarter? Will Touhou ever be on Kickstarter?
ZUN: I’ve been following it. I’ll be honest with you though, there’s no need for Touhou ever to do a Kickstarter. It doesn’t really cost anything to produce. I’m making it all by myself. If it’s just one person developing it, you don’t need money to make the project work. I don’t see any reason that I would do it. One thing I worry about, I guess, is that if you successfully get all the money, and you have to make the game, and if mid-production there’s a problem… Your book was done through Kickstarter?

JS: Yes, it was.
ZUN: Isn’t it possible you could run off with the money or something?

JS: Any creator can run off. There’s no real accountability. Just my reputation to back me up.
ZUN: If that starts happening, people are not going to want to use Kickstarter anymore.

JS: It’s funny, because a couple of high profile projects hit the rocks. Tim Schaeffer received 3.5 million dollars, and then ran out of money.
ZUN: I know the story. It was the end of last year, wasn’t it? Kickstarter is kind of scary! You’re really against your own clock at that point. You have to make the game – if you run out of money, then you’re out of money.
JS: My question is, how do you spend 3 million dollars so easily?
ZUN: Did he use it effectively? Or did something go wrong? I don’t have any plans to use crowdfunding now, and I don’t think I ever will. <laughs> It might be a case that I want to buy some more alcohol, so maybe I could run a Kickstarter for that!
<everyone laughs>

ZUN: But nobody would give me money for that.
JS: I don’t know. Maybe. It’s keeping it old school – physical packaging, money for direct goods, one man and his computer…

ZUN: Yes, but it’s not like I’m trying to keep that process alive. It’s just more that it’s the way I do it. I’m used to it.

JS: Can we get a photo together.

<photo is taken>

ZUN: Can I put these on Twitter?
JS: Sure! That would be great!